CARDEN
DNA PROJECT
Fifth
Report - May 2003
The
use of DNA for genealogy relies on the fact that the portion called the
Y-chromosome is passed unaltered from father to son over very many generations,
except for the rare occurrence of a mutation affecting one element (called
a marker).
For
explanations, see, for instance
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~allpoms/genetics.html
http://www.familytreedna.com/facts_genes.asp
For
the Carden DNA Project nearly 40 Y-chromosome analysis results have now
been received, including those of the first six participants which were
covered in my report dated January 2002.The
first 25 were analysed by Oxford Ancestors in England, but we are now using
FTDNA of Texas, through whom analysis is carried out by the University
of Arizona.
This
latest report omits most of the explanations given in earlier reports.
I will be happy to repeat them, and also go into much greater detail about
the technique, probability calculations, family trees of the participants,
more detail about origins of the family and so on, on request.If
anyone else would like to take part, please contact me.
Many
thanks are again due to Trish and Ron for kindly publishing this report
on their sites -
http://www.TNTCarden.com/tree/ensor/00CardenDNAproject1.html
Arthur
Carden.30th
May 2003
<carden@one-name.org>
Carden
Origins
For
some years I have thought, without much foundation, that all Cardens world-wide
(apart from a few whose ancestors changed their surname to Carden from
some other name) descend from one of three common ancestors, and thus are
part of three unrelated groups with origins as follows.
Cheshire
Origin
The
Carden name appears in Cheshire from the 13th century onwards. Ormerod,
the famous Cheshire historian, states “at some point before the reign
of Henry II (i.e., before 1216) a family assumed the local name
Carden.”
Essex
Origin.
The
Domesday Book shows that in 1086 a William Cardon was working for Geoffrey
de Mandeville, one of the many followers of William the Conqueror who were
given confiscated land.
Mayo/Sligo
Group.
Many
Cardens can trace their origins to these Irish west coast counties.
An
objective of the CARDEN DNA PROJECT is to show whether most Cardens are
indeed members of one of these three groups, and whether the three groups
are distinct or connected to one another.It
has already gone a long way to achieving this objective.
Results
so far
What
appears here is a highly simplified summary.The
actual numbers for each individual appear in a table at the end of this
document.
Cheshire
Haplogroup
About
half of all the nearly 40 results received so far (mostly 10 or 12 marker
tests) are identical, and those concerned undoubtedly have a common ancestor.I
call this identical DNA signature the Cheshire Haplotype because several
of the individuals concerned are known to have very early Cheshire origins.Many
of the remainder differ by only one or two mutations, and clearly also
come from Cheshire.Probability calculations
suggest that they all had a common ancestor in about the year 1500 plus
or minus a century or more.
Five
of these identical results are 25-marker tests.Compared
with these another five 25-marker tests exhibit mutations.This
is splendid –
the five identical ones define the Cheshire haplotype as far as the additional
markers are concerned, and the five with mutations may in due course help
to establish family groupings.
Mayo/Sligo
Group
It
is remarkable that the signatures of two of the participants from Mayo/Sligo
only differ by two mutations from the Cheshire haplotype.This
implies that the Mayo/Sligo Cardens may also have a Cheshire ancestor.The
earliest record of Cardens in Co Sligo is dated 1617, well before a Carden
emigrated from Cheshire to Tipperary about 1665.It
is possible that their ancestor emigrated separately from England in earlier
years, perhaps in Norman or Elizabethan times.However
the other two participants from Mayo/Sligo do not support this theory.
East
Kent Haplogroup
Two
results (both from the original six) define the totally different East
Kent Haplotype.They come from Ron
and Bill, who both live in Kent, England.Bill’s
was a welcome surprise, as it was previously only guessed that his great
grandfather, Sergeant George Carden, born 1818 in France, had Kent ancestors.Their
common ancestor lived before 1700 and probably before 1450.
Individual
Participants and Family Groups
An
attempt is made below to comment on the DNA signature of each individual
participant.Comments and corrections
will be most welcome.
Matlock
Group
Observant
readers will see that I have now transferred Tom Carding to the Matlock
Group from the Tipperary Group, although there is no proof that he descends
from Samuel, the common ancestor of the other four.Both
he and Jim have had 25-marker tests made, with identical results, so that
there is a 50/50 chance they have a common ancestor within 7 generations.We
do not yet have a 25-marker test for a Tipperary Carden, unfortunately.
Apart
from Tom, the signatures of three of the group exactly match the Cheshire
haplotype, so not only is it clear that the Matlock group has Cheshire
origins, but that their common ancestor Samuel must have had the same signature.Samuel
Carden or Carding was born about 1650 in Matlock.Michael’s
has two mutations.
The
Carden, Cardin and Carding names were all used by members of this group,
changing back and forth over the years.
Cecil
Carding
of New Zealand is the “senior” member of the group, being descended from
Samuel’s elder son. <cebecar@xtra.co.nz>
Jim
Carden
lives in Stalybridge, England.James
(“Jim”) has obtained
a 25-marker result, which exactly matches the results for four of the others
who have obtained such results, helping to confirm the 25-marker Cheshire
haplotypeHe has
his own very interesting web site at <http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/r/James-Carden>.<JCarrbrook@aol.com>
John
Carden,
by coincidence, also used to live in Stalybridge, but has recently moved
to France. His descent from Samuel seems highly probable, but his earliest
proven ancestor is Solomon Cardin/Carding who married in Manchester in
1841.However his DNA signature helps
to prove the link to Samuel. <cardennowwell@tiscali.co.uk>
Michael
Carding
and his wife Marrion live in Chesterfield, England.He is
the odd one out. All the other Matlock Cardens match the Cheshire haplotype
exactly (whether over 10 markers or 25).Michael
previously showed one mutation, and now that he has obtained a 25-marker
result shows two!It appears that
the first mutation (at DYS 393) must have occurred at one of the five transmissions
between himself and Michael born 1787, his earliest common ancestor with
John.The other mutation (at DYS
464d) must have been at one of the eight transmissions between himself
and Samuel born 1681.If John decides
to have a 25-marker test done, he will also presumably be found to possess
this second mutation, as it would be remarkable for both of Michael's mutations
to have occurred since his line split from John's. <CBeagleowner@nasuwt.net>
Tom
Carding
(Frank Tomas Carding) lives in Cheshire.His
son Michael, head teacher of the local secondary school, was very helpful
as regards the Carden Gathering in 1998.There
is a delightful tradition in his family that a scoundrel named Captain
John Carden from Tipperary eloped with the unfortunate Miss Mary de Warren
about 1750 and soon deserted her and her infant son John, who used the
name Carding rather than Carden. The
family still treasures the scoundrel’s sword.Since
Tom had an identical 10-marker signature to Peter, of the Tipperary group
below this appeared to suggest that the scoundrel came from Peter’s branch
of the family, and might even have been the same as the Major John Carden
who eloped in 1772 with a Miss Sarah Surman.But
there is evidence that Miss Mary de Warren actually married a John Carding
from the next village, so it is equally likely that Tom’s ancestry comes
more directly from Cheshire, without having anything to do with Tipperary.Now
that Tom has had a 25-marker test done, which matches Jim (of Matlock’s)
signature exactly, this and the name “Carding” makes a connection with
the Matlock group more likely than one with the Tipperary group. <betom@tiscali.co.uk>
Tipperary
Group
A
John Carden emigrated to Tipperary, probably directly from Cheshire, in
the 17th century.He is known to
some of us as the patriarch.His
date of birth is not known, but is likely to have been in the first half
of the 17th century as his sons were married in Tipperary in 1672 and 1673.He
must have had the same DNA signature as Peter O’N Carden, whose ancestry
has been traced on paper back to the patriarch over 8 generations, as otherwise
Peter would not have exactly fitted the Cheshire Carden haplotype.
Results
have been received from five Tipperary Cardens, as follows:
Arnold
Carden
lives in Argentina.He and Arthur
and Michael J (see below), all members of the Barnane branch of the family,
have identical signatures to each other.These
signatures, surprisingly, differ from the Cheshire haplotype and therefore
from their “paper” ancestor, the patriarch, by six mutations, far too many
for biological descent from the patriarch.It
is therefore certain that somewhere between the patriarch and the common
ancestor of Arnold, Arthur and Michael J there was a “non-paternal event.”This
common ancestor was John Carden, born 1699, great grandson of the patriarch.He
was an only child and there is some evidence that he himself was the child
of a certain John Barry, so perhaps it is the Barry DNA signature which
we carry.Arnold’s and Arthur’s common
ancestor was born as recently as 1818, but the Michael J’s result greatly
helped by taking the birth of the common ancestor back to 1699.
Arthur
Carden,
the organiser of this study, and of the 1998 Carden Gathering, lives near
London.See Arnold above. <carden@one-name.org>
Michael
J Carden is
a member of the Barnane-in-Australia branch and lives near Canberra.The
identity of his DNA signature to that of Arnold and Arthur proves that
the branch is correctly named –
proof of the connection to Barnane did not previously exist, though there
were strong indications.His participation
(paid for jointly by Arthur and his brother Michael) has therefore been
doubly useful. <michaelc@panasonic.com.au>
Dr
Peter O’Neil Carden
lives in NSW, Australia.He is a
member of the Killard branch of the family, descended from the younger
son of the patriarch.As mentioned
above, Peter’s signature is identical to the Cheshire Haplotype, which
proves that the patriarch’s signature was the same.Peter
is interested in probability theory and has made some contributions to
the understanding of DNA links and mutations.<pscarden@shoal.net.au>
Richard
A P Carden
lives in Norfolk.He will be remembered
by many who attended the Carden Gathering in Cheshire in 1998 for his financial
management and administration of the event, as well as for his cheerfulness.He
is a member of the Fishmoyne branch, descended from a younger grandson
of the patriarch than is the Barnane branch.His
signature differs by two mutations from that of the patriarch.There
is a “reasonable” chance of about 1 in 20 of this happening in 10 generations,
so a non-parental event need not have occurred in his case.<r.carden@btinternet.com>
Penshurst
/ Chiddingstone Cardens
It
is likely that the Cardens of Penshurst and Chiddingstone, Kent (villages
near Tonbridge), are descended from the John Carden of Tilston, Cheshire,
mentioned under Brighton below.This
idea is supported to some degree by the results for two participants –
Mike
Carden
(Michael J), of Cumbria, exhibits two mutations (counting a double-jump
as one mutation in accordance with advice from Oxford Ancestors) from the
Cheshire haplotype.There is better
chance that he has a common ancestor with those with exact matches to that
haplotype than quoted for Richard A P above since many more generations
may have elapsed. Mike is
a member of the Maidstone sub-branch.<carden_mike@hotmail.com>
Roger
Carden
of London, a member of the Loraine sub-branch, shares one mutation with
Mike, but otherwise fits the Cheshire haplotype exactly. This
suggests that their common ancestor, William Carden of Penshurst, born
1760, had the same signature as Roger, and Mike’s second mutation occurred
in the six subsequent generations.
<rogercarden@hotmail.com>
Brighton
Cardens
There
is good evidence, found by Joan Carden of Spain, that the Cardens of Brighton
are descended from a Richard Carden born in Cheshire in about 1500.He
became Dean of Chichester and paid for the 16th century stained glass window
in Tilston church in Cheshire which shows the sling and pheon which form
part of the Carden coat of arms.
However
the two results obtained for Cardens in Brighton, though identical to each
other, are utterly different from the Cheshire haplotype.They
were provided by -
Donald
Carden,
who lives in Luton and is a member of the “Hatter” branch of the Brighton
Cardens which included Sir Herbert Carden, known as the “father of modern
Brighton.” and
David
Carden,
who lives in Brighton, and is Town Clerk of a neighbouring town.His
result and that of Donald are so far removed from the other results, despite
their Cheshire link, that a non-paternal event in their ancestry, perhaps
many generations ago, is virtually certain.David’s
branch of the Brighton family is known as the “Virgo” branch.He
and Donald have a common ancestor in Robert Carden, born 1787, one of whose
sons (Samuel Virgo Carden, born 1815) started David’s “Virgo” branch of
the Cardens of Brighton, and another (John, born 1821) started Donald’s
“Hatter” branch.So the non-paternal
event occurred in 1787 or before.<davidcarden1@aol.com>
Another
possible explanation however might be that Donald’s and David’s are examples
ofthe “true” Cheshire signature
of a very early Cheshire Carden, and the non-paternal event took place
between this early Cheshire Carden and the common ancestor of all the others.I
am indebted to Joan Carden for this suggestion.
Other
UK Cardens close to the Cheshire Carden haplotype
Ernest
Carden,
who lives in Cheshire and is a member of the Winsford branch, almost certainly
has Cheshire ancestors.This is supported
by his DNA result, which shows only one mutation from the Cheshire haplotype,
even over 25 markers
Peter
L Cardenlives
in Australia and is a member of the Randle branch, descended from a William
Carden whose son Randle Carden was born about 1830 in the old county of
Flint, just over the border from Cheshire.His
daughter Natalie persuaded him to participate.His
signature also exhibits one mutation from the Cheshire Carden haplotype
so it is confirmed that his branch is a Cheshire one.This
mutation is the same as that of Scott, below.<nccarden@hotmail.com>
Peter
W Cardenlives
near Liverpool.His sister Hazel
Poole has been trying for many years to trace their ancestor, a soldier,
whose son was born in Halifax about 1847.Since
Peter’s signature is three mutations away from the Cheshire haplotype,
his Cheshire origin is somewhat doubtful.<CARDEN@peterw.fsnet.co.uk
>
Tony
Carden
(Dr A B G Carden) of Melbourne, Australia is a member of the Bendigo branch,
the origins of which have been traced back to a town in Shropshire, just
over the border from Cheshire and only a few miles from the hamlet of Carden.As
perhaps might be expected, he has a DNA signature identical to the Cheshire
haplotype. <abgcarden@bigpond.com>
Lincolnshire
Cardens
Only
one Lincolnshire Carden is a participant so far.
Stephen
Carden,
who lives in Spain not far from Joan Carden, has a DNA signature totally
different from both the Cheshire haplotype and the East Kent haplotype.Therefore,
either there is a non-paternal event in his ancestry, or the Lincolnshire
Cardens have their own unique origin. <scarden@wanadoo.es>
Cardens
of Virginia,
USA
Chris,
Chuck, James E (rather surprisingly, see below), Judson and Raymond (12
markers), and Eddie (25 markers) all have DNA signatures identical to the
Cheshire haplotype So does
Greg (25 markers), though his VA roots are unproven.It
seems clear that they are all directly descended from Cheshire ancestors,
perhaps from a single immigrant.
Chris
Carden
and his sister Beth Macdonald, together with Chuck below, have traced their
ancestry firmly to Robert Carden who died in Goochland County, Virginia
in 1785, and possibly, three further generations back, to a passenger from
England aboard the “Speedwell.”Beth
writes:“Chuck’s and our ancestry
probably converge back with my Robert James Carden (c.1702 VA) and Phyllis
Woolbanks, whom Chuck lists as Robert [above].That
particular Robert is a huge mystery and is not proven for Chris and me.”<seasqrd@hotmail.com
(Chris Carden>, <bmacd@pop.dmci.net>
Chuck
Carden
(Charles W Carden), see above, is a retired Marine and Chief of Police
who came to the Carden Gathering in Cheshire in 1998, and is soon to move
to Cape Cod from Colorado.<cwcarden7222@msn.com>
Eddie
Carden
(Edward Glen) lives in Virginia but was born in Tennessee. His 25-marker
result matches the Cheshire Haplotype exactly.His
earliest proven ancestor is John
Cardin of Mecklenberg Couny Virginia, the father of Reubin Carden born
about 1775.<ecarden@cox.net>
Greg
Carden
lives in Alabama.His Virginia ancestry
is not proven, though there are sufficient indications for him to be included,
at least for the time being, in this group. He and Eddie are the only members
of this group, so far, to have obtained a 25-marker result.<carden@simplecom.net>
(Greg’s mother):
James
E (Eugene) Carden writes:“I
am African American and have never met another "Black" Carden except for
my immediate family until about 2 years ago when I visited Halifax County
(Scottsburg) Virginia. I think this is where my Great Grandfather, James
H. Carden was born.”<CardenJE@aol.com>
Judson
Wayne Carden lives
in Alabama.His third cousin Elisa
Sanford persuaded him to submit a sample.His
earliest proven ancestor is Leonard Carden, born about 1793 in Virginia.<esanala@yahoo.com>
(Elisa)
Raymond
Bell’s
grandfather changed his name from Cardin to Bell for no apparent reason.His
daughter Linda Tieman has traced his ancestry back to Leonard Carden, born
about 1785 in Virginia.Raymond
lives in Georgia, and his daughter in Texas.
<ltiemann@satx.rr.com>
(Linda Tiemann)
Cardens
of North Carolina,
USA
Richard
below
have DNA signatures identical to the Cheshire haplotype, and undoubtedly
share ancestors in Cheshire with all those with similar signatures.Greg,
above, and Scott are the only members of the Virginia and North Carolina
groups to have obtained 25-marker results so farIt
is hoped that others will do so to clarify the relationships.
Richard
J Carden
lives in Michigan.His oldest known
ancestor is William Carden who was born in 1755 in Orange County, North
Carolina and who died in 1824 in Jasper County Georgia. As mentioned above,
his 10-marker signature matches the Cheshire haplotype exactly <Runningbull24@aol.com>
Scott
Carden.Carol
Scarlett, a keen family researcher who came to the Carden Gathering in
Cheshire in 1998, traced her distant cousin Scott and persuaded him to
submit a sample. His great great grandfather was George Carden born in
Orange County, North Carolina in 1828. A
25-marker result has recently been obtained for Scott. One of his original
Oxford Ancestors results (not analysed by FTDNA) matches that of Peter
L of the Randle branch below.It
is not yet clear whether this is a mutation or part of the Cheshire haplotype,
but suggests that Scott and Peter L have a common ancestor.A
definite mutation in the last of his 25-marker results matches that of
Jim of Matlock above, once again suggesting a common ancestor.Neither
of these casts any doubt on his Cheshire origin, but they suggest he and
Richard J may descend from different immigrants. <Cascam627@aol.com>
(Carol Scarlett)
Thor
Carden
(Thor Foy Carden) and his wife Tricia Swallows Carden live in Tennessee,
where Thor is Administrator of the Family Christian Academy.Trish
kindly publishes this report on her web site.They
have traced Thor’s ancestry to a John Carden who was born about 1776 and
died in 1847 in Orange County, North Carolina.Thor’s
DNA signature differs from the Cheshire Haplotype by two mutations, so
there is only a “reasonable” possibility that he shares an ancestor with
others who match more closely. Thor
suspects that his father’s exposure to radiation while working on radar
during the war might be the reason for these mutations.He
has traced a third cousin, Robert L. Carden, who has agreed to submit a
sample, the analysis of which will be extremely interesting in this context.<G-Ma@tcarden.com>
Other
Cardens in USA
Bill
Carden
(William Andrew) lives in Tennessee.His
wife Rosemarie has persuaded Bill to submit a sample to help identify his
Carden origins.It is identical
with the Cheshire Haplotype over all 25 markers, so undoubtedly he has
a Cheshire ancestor. Bill’s earliest proven ancestor, Ansel Carden, was
also from Tennessee, but if Rosemarie is able to go further back it may
be appropriate to include him in one of the groups above.<rosemarie@wireco.net.>
Jerry
Carden
(Jerry Alan Carden) who lives in Illinois, traces his ancestry to a William
Carden, born in Yorkshire, England in 1795. William
and his wife came to the US in 1819.His
DNA signature exactly matches the Cheshire Haplotype, so undoubtedly he
shares an ancestor in Cheshire around 1500 with all those
who have the same DNA signature.He
has recently obtained a 25-marker result, showing two unique mutations,
which may one day enable a link to others in England to be proven. <jcarden@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Leo
Carden
(Robert Leo Carden) was born in Oklahoma, and before retirement was a teacher
and then for many years Director of a Technology Center.His
relative Carrie Bench has traced their ancestry to William Carden, born
about 1755 in Georgia.The first
three known generations lived in Georgia and the next three in Alabama.
<lcarden25@yahoo.com>
Mayo-Sligo
Group
As
mentioned above, it is remarkable that the signatures of two participants
from Co Sligo are close to the Cheshire Haplotype, despite the fact that
Cardens were to be found in these west coast Irish counties as early as
1617, well before a Carden emigrated from Cheshire to Tipperary about 1665
(and before Cromwell banished his opponents to the western counties).Presumably
their ancestor emigrated separately from England in earlier years, perhaps
in Norman or Elizabethan times.
Two
other participants have rather different signatures, which tends to reduce
the force of the above.
Gerard
Carden,
who lives in Glasgow, Scotland, has traced his ancestry to Mathew Carden,
whose son Patrick was married in Co Sligo in 1880.His
DNA signature is identical to the Cheshire haplotype as regards 9 out of
the 10 markers analysed by Oxford Ancestors, but shows a triple-jump in
the remaining one, which they regard as two mutations.This
suggests a common ancestor with those possessing the exact Cheshire haplotype
about 20 or 30 generations ago, which means this ancestor might have lived
in about 1400, presumably in Cheshire
Owen
Carden,
who lives in Leeds, England, was persuaded by his nephew Des Curley of
Co Sligo, to submit a sample for analysis.This
turned out to be identical to Gerard’s, which is not surprising, as they
are related.<des_curley@hotmail.com>
Fred
Carden
of Pennsylvania, who traces his ancestry to Killala, Co Mayo, has a DNA
signature which differs at four points from the Cheshire haplotype, which
would normally be enough to deny a common ancestor in the past millennium.However
one of them is in the same marker as the mutation possessed by Gerard and
Owen, but the remaining three are probably enough to deny a relationship.Fred
has ordered a 25-marker analysis, which will be very interesting, especially
if other Mayo/Sligo Cardens do so too. <fcarden@stny.rr.com>
Terry
(Terrence S) Carden
of Arizona, a retired physician who traces his ancestry to Ballina, Co
Mayo, differs at three points from the Cheshire haplotype, one of which
is the same as Gerald, Owen and Fred’s and the other two the same as Fred’s.Terry
therefore almost certainly has a common ancestor with Fred.Terry,
incidentally, has kindly digitised many hundreds of Mayo parish register
entries obtained by Arthur, and will send copies on request.
<tscii@comcast.net>
Fred
has ordered a 25-marker test, and if some of the others do so too, and/or
some more results from Mayo/Sligo participants are received. perhaps this
rather complex situation will be clarified.
East
Kent Haplogroup
Two
results (both from the original six) define the totally different East
Kent haplogroup.It is possible that
this group is descended from the Cardon mentioned in the Domesday Book,
but that is pure speculation.It
is interesting that only these two, out of the 25 or more Cardens who have
submitted samples, belong to this group, the remainder almost all belonging
to the Cheshire group.If it were
not for the similarity of Ron’s and Bill’s results it might have been supposed
that a non-paternal event in their ancestry prevented them from matching
the Cheshire haplotype (like for instance, Donald and David of Brighton).
Ron
Carden
(Ronald George) lives in Ashford, Kent.He
is a keen genealogist and studies Cardens throughout East Kent.He
has traced his ancestry convincingly to Thomas Carden, born in Herne, Kent
in 1734.Joan Carden of Spain, who
belongs to this family, has carried the pedigree back to John Carden of
Sheppey, Kent, born 1450.
<roncarden@btinternet.com>
Bill
Carden
(William George) lives in Faversham, Kent.He
shared the cost of his DNA analysis with his cousin Ian who lives in New
Zealand.The result was virtually
identical to Ron’s, which was a welcome surprise, as it was previously
only guessed that his great grandfather, Sergeant George Carden, born 1818
in France, had Kent ancestors.Subsequent
research suggests that the latter’s father was born in Littlebourne, Kent
and fought at the battle of Waterloo.<bcarden@tiscali.co.uk>
Surname
Variants
DNA
analysis may make it possible to shown whether or not names such as Carwardine,
Calladine, Kerwin, Kenderdine and so on are indeed variants of the Cawarden
name, which changed to Carden in Cheshire.So
far only one individual has come forward.
Taylor
Cowardin
traces his ancestry to Peter Carwardine who came to Maryland from England
in 1656.Unfortunately his DNA signature
is totally different from that of every other participant, so either there
is no link between the surnames, or there was a “non-paternal event” at
some time, perhaps many generations ago,which
broke the chain whereby the Y-chromosome is passed, unchanging, from father
to son.<DOW17000@aol.com>
FTDNA’s
three extra markers
As
more results are received from FTDNA, attention can be directed at the
three extra markers upon which they report.Until
the switch to FTDNA was made, the Cheshire Carden haplotype was only defined
in terms of the 10 markers reported by Oxford Ancestors.
So
far, among those who exactly match the Cheshire Haplotype on the 9 markers
common to OA and FTDNA, all have identical values for two of the extra
three, but not for the other, DYS 385b, for which two values appear:
15
Jim, Tom (Matlock), Eddie, Greg, James E, Judson (Virginia).
16
Peter L (Randle), Scott (NC)
We
cannot yet be sure therefore whether for DYS385b the Cheshire haplotype
is 15 or 16, although 15 seems the more probable.A
value of 15 is also supported by Ernest’s result.If
15 is correct, then Peter L and Scott have a distinguishing mutation (and
in any case possibly have a common ancestor).
Differences
like these can be very useful in making connections between branches, but
surprisingly few have arisen.
25-marker
Signatures
FTDNA
offer to report on 25 markers.9
participants have already taken advantage of this.The
analysis can either be done when a sample is first submitted, by paying
$169 (instead of $99 for a 12-marker report}, or in the form of an upgrade
at a later date, costing $90.
The
advantages of 25-marker tests are twofold.First,
they are able to identify much more effectively the closeness of relationships.For
instance, at present we know that a large proportion of our participants
share a common ancestor in Cheshire, but we are unable to group them into
branches of the family.With 25-markers
to consider it may be possible to allocate them to a number of groups of
individuals who share, or nearly share, identical results for all 25 markers.Second,
with 25 markers it is possible to estimate the number of generations to
the most recent common ancestor considerably better.For
instance it is calculated that two individuals with identical 10-marker
results have a common ancestor who lived about 15 generations ago, plus
or minus a very wide margin of error.For
two individuals with identical 25-marker results the corresponding estimate
is 7 generations.
It
is to be hoped that many participants will be prepared to pay for 25-marker
tests, either when they first join the project or subsequently.Unfortunately
all those whose sample was analysed by Oxford Ancestors will have to start
again from scratch with FTDNA, paying $169, although several of the 10
mentioned above have taken advantage of a special offer of $149 for “Oxford
Conversion.
The
Y-STR database
This
is a fast-growing collection of DNA results for forensic purposes covering
most countries in Europe (http://ystr.charite.de).Unfortunately
only 7 of the markers in the database coincide with the 10 used by Oxford
Ancestors or the 12 used by FTDNA.Using
these seven, 267 exact matches were found for the basic Cheshire Group
signature out of a database of 9,685.This
means that about 1 in 35 men in Europe share the same numbers with our
Cheshire Group, and this is one of the most frequently found set of numbers,
only one step away from what is called the “Atlantic Modal Haplotype.”
Arthur,
Ernest (both 14 for DYS 392), and Thor (12 for DYS 391) all possess rather
rare mutations.If others are found
to match their results this will be highly significant.No
matches whatever were found for the set of 7 usable May-Sligo figures provided
by Gerard and Owen, so theirs is a very rare set of numbers!
As
regards the East Kent Group, using the 7 available markers, there are only
4 exact matches for Ron/Bill’s result out of a database which had increased
to 10,035 by the time the comparison was made.The
matches are one each in Switzerland, London, Southern Ireland and Tuscany,
so this tells us only that the East Kent Group has a very rare signature
and makes a relationship between Ron and Bill virtually certain.[What
is more, their common result of 9 for DYS 388 is, according to Oxford Ancestors,
also very rare and outside the normal range for this marker.]
Ybase
There
is an interesting site at <http://ybase.org> where it is possible
to compare DNA signatures with those of people who have entered theirs.
For
instance, on entering the numbers for our Cheshire Haplotype, there is
found to be one surname, Rader, which matches on 21 out of the 26 markers,
12 surnames which match on 20 of the 26 and many more which match on 19
or less.
If
I receive no objection in the next month or so, I will submit our Cheshire
and East Kent haplotypes as permanent entries in this database, so that
those with other surnames can have some fun finding a match with us.Of
course any of us can enter his own numbers (temporarily or permanently)
to see what he finds.
Other
comments
It
is notable that the majority of our American participants match the Cheshire
haplotype exactly, and most of the others with only one or two mutationsThis
proves that almost all have Cheshire descent beyond doubt and shows that
no non-paternal events have occurred in their ancestry.It
is a pity, in a way, that so few exhibit any mutations, which would have
made it possible to establish groups.
Huge
numbers of Americans left Ireland for a better life, but only two of our
participants did so.It will also
be noted that the oldest proven ancestor of almost every participant from
USA lived in USA before independence, long before the days of Ellis Island
or the Irish famine.
But
it should not be supposed that our 16 American participants are truly representative
of the thousands of Cardens in the USA!
Results
awaited
The
following are believed to have sent samples for analysis, or are about
to do so, but have not yet received their results
Dave
(David L) Carden of North Carolina.<carden@unc.edu>
Mark
Carden of Co. Sligo, now living in London.<mark.carden@biscuits.com>.
Fred
Carden (Cheryl’s husband) of North Carolina. <cherylscarden99@cs.com>
Robert
L. Carden, of, Haw River, NC, USA, cousin of Thor above. <rjcarden@bellsouth.net>
Mike
Collins, for his uncle in Texas.<castron72@hotmail.com>
Ted
(Prof Edward) Carden of California (Rigsby, UK, branch).<tedcarden@attbi.com>
Colin
M Carden of Somerset, UK.<colin@carden-mudges.fsnet.co.uk>
George
Carden of Georgia USA.<gcarden@carden.net>
Several
others are making up their minds whether to participate or not, or are
trying to persuade male relatives to do so.
RESULTS
FOR OXFORD ANCESTORS (10-marker) AND FTDNA (12-marker) TESTS, COMBINED
(For notes on this table,
see below subsequent table)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ref
No |
More
in
next
table |
|
Matlock.
Mostly identical to Cheshire haplotype.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
Cecil
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
?
|
|
|
Jim
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
3897
|
|
|
John
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
5076
|
YES
|
|
Michael
|
#1(2)
|
14
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4485
|
YES
|
|
Tom
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
4429
|
YES
|
|
Tipperary.Peter
O’N’s result proves original 17C immigrant matched Cheshire haplotype.First
three have 6 identical mutations.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
Arnold
|
#1(6)
|
12
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
13
|
14
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
14^
|
28
|
|
4383
|
|
|
Arthur
|
#1(6)
|
12
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
13
|
14
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
14ˆ
|
28
|
12
|
Y
2653
|
|
|
Michael
J
|
#1(6)
|
12
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
13
|
14
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
14ˆ
|
28
|
12
|
6147
|
|
|
Peter
O’N
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4371
|
|
|
Richard
AP
|
#1(1)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
11
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
30
|
12
|
Y
?
|
|
|
Penshurst
/ Chiddingstone, Kent
|
|
||||||||||||||||
Mike
|
#1(2)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
11
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
31
|
12
|
Y
4886
|
|
|
Roger
|
#1(1)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
11
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
3008
|
|
|
Brighton.Known
to have Cheshire origi ns, but a non-paternal event presumably took place
on or before birth of Robert 1787
|
|
||||||||||||||||
David
|
-
|
15ˆ
|
22
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
11
|
13
|
|
12
|
11
|
28
|
12
|
Y
2652
|
|
|
Donald
|
-
|
15
|
22
|
14
|
10
|
12
|
13
|
11
|
13
|
11
|
12
|
11
|
28
|
|
4413
|
|
|
Other
Cheshire(excl USA).Winsford,Randle,
Halifax,Bendigobranches
respectively. Peter W perhaps unrelated.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
Ernest
|
#1(1)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
14ˆ
|
29
|
12
|
Y
2656
|
YES
|
|
Peter
L
|
#1(1)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
16
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
4431
|
|
|
Peter
W
|
#1(3)
|
13
|
23
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
14
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
4433
|
|
|
Tony
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
?
|
|
|
Lilncolnshire.Unique
(unrelated) result
|
|
||||||||||||||||
Stephen
|
-
|
13
|
23
|
14
|
10
|
16
|
16
|
11
|
14
|
10
|
12
|
11
|
28
|
|
5878
|
|
|
Virginia,
USA
|
|
||||||||||||||||
*Chris
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4910
|
|
|
*Chuck
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4606
|
|
|
*Eddie
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
7098
|
YES
|
|
*Greg
(?)
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
5650
|
YES
|
|
*James
E
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
4982
|
|
|
*Judson
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
4460
|
|
|
*Raymond
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4385
|
|
|
North
Carolina, USA.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
*Richard
J
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4883
|
|
|
*Scott
|
#1(2)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
16
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
5231
|
YES
|
|
*Thor
|
#1(2)
|
13
|
23
|
14
|
12ˆ
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4108
|
|
|
Other
USA
|
|
|
|||||||||||||||
*Bill
(TN)
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
7090
|
|
|
*Jerry
|
#1(2)
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
11
|
15
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
3919
|
YES
|
|
*Leo
|
#1
|
13
|
24
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4256
|
|
|
Mayo/Sligo.Closeness
of Gerard, Owento Cheshire haplotype
is amazing as this branch was in Ireland prior to 1600.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
*Fred
|
#1(4)
|
13
|
21
|
14
|
11
|
11
|
14
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
4430
|
|
|
Gerard/Owen
|
#1(2)
|
13
|
21
|
14
|
10
|
|
|
12
|
12
|
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4606
|
|
|
*Terrence
|
#1(3)
|
13
|
21
|
14
|
11
|
11
|
14
|
12
|
12
|
12
|
13
|
13
|
29
|
|
5701
|
|
|
Taylor
Cowardin has a Carwardine ancestor, which is perhaps a Cheshire Carden
name variant - but he exhibits many mutations.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
*Taylor
|
-
|
13
|
23
|
16
|
10
|
|
|
11
|
17
|
|
13
|
11
|
29
|
12
|
Y
4970
|
|
|
East
Kent.No common ancestor with any
of the above.
|
|
||||||||||||||||
Bill
|
#2(1)
|
13
|
23
|
15
|
11
|
|
|
12
|
09ˆ
|
|
12
|
13
|
28
|
*M
|
Y
2655
|
|
|
Ron
|
#2
|
13
|
23
|
15
|
11
|
|
|
12
|
09ˆ
|
|
12
|
13
|
28
|
12
|
Y
2654
|
|
ADDITIONAL
RESULTS FOR THOSE OBTAINING 25-MARKER ANALYSES
(Listed
here are all the individuals who have obtained 25-marker results)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ref
No |
Matlock..
|
||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
#1
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
15
|
15
|
17
|
18
|
|
6605
|
Michael
|
#1(2)
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
15
|
15
|
17
|
17
|
|
7189
|
Tom
|
#1
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
156
|
15
|
17
|
18
|
|
4429
|
Other
Cheshire(excl USA).
|
||||||||||||||||
Ernest
|
#1(1)
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
16
|
16
|
18
|
19
|
|
7191
|
Virginia,
USA
|
||||||||||||||||
*Greg
(?)
|
#1
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
16
|
16
|
18
|
19
|
|
5650
|
North
Carolina, USA.
|
||||||||||||||||
*Scott
|
#1(2)
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
16
|
16
|
18
|
18
|
|
7192
|
Other
USA
|
||||||||||||||||
*Bill
|
#1
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
16
|
16
|
18
|
19
|
|
7090
|
*Eddie
|
#1
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
15
|
16
|
18
|
19
|
|
7098
|
*Jerry
|
#1(2)
|
17
|
9
|
9
|
11
|
11
|
25
|
14
|
19
|
29
|
15
|
17
|
17
|
19
|
|
7188
|
Notes
to both the above tables
The
markers (columns) are now arranged in the order used by FTDNA; their additional
markers are added; and OA’s 389i and 389ii-i converted to 389.I and 389.II
(by adding 3 to the former to produce 389.II and adding the former two
together plus 3 to produce 389.II).Where
this applies (Jim, Michael, Tom, Arthur, Jerry) subsequent tests by FTDNA
reproduced the Oxford Ancestors results exactly, and added the two extra
markers as shown. Oxford Ancestors showed Richard AP as having only two
mutations (at 391 and 389i) from the Cheshire Haplotype, but the calculation
of 389.II in the table creates a spurious mutation (14) at this latter
marker, so 13 is entered above.The
same applies to David, but in his case 14 is left unamended to match Donald.For
an explanation see Kevin Duerinck’s site athttp://www.duerinck.com/results.html.Gerard
(Y 4506) and Owen (Y 5096), with identical results, are shown on one line
as they are closely related.The
difference of three (in one marker) shown by Gerard and Owen is regarded
as two mutations, on the advice of Oxford Ancestors.
The
numbers (alleles) for all four versions of Marker DYS 464 have been reduced
by one to bring them into line with future presentation, as announced by
FTDNA on 19 May 2003.
Numbers
shown in bold differ from the relevant haplotype
*MIndeterminate
(multiple peak).ˆA
very rare number for this marker. *Participant
from USA.
Y
Oxford Ancestors reference; others FTDNA
#1Cheshire
Carden Haplogroup.All the results
marked #1 are identical and form the Cheshire Carden haplogroup.Figure
in brackets gives the number of mutations, if any, taking both tables together.Double-jump
treated as single mutation (eg, Mike).
#2East
Kent haplogroup